Russell: Hello, welcome back to The Fresh From The North podcast.

Here we talk to some of the North's freshest voices, some of the most interesting people, and we're reflecting with them on what a perfect day or what a day well lived looks like.

I wanted to hear from Liz Cottam as our second guest, because she's got an incredible story that's got all the kind of the component parts of something that, I don't know, just has real impact, whether it's those kind of sliding doors or serendipitous moments or a culmination of things that went on in her life that led to like this really strong sense of mission and purpose.

In the world of fine dining, only 8% of restaurants are female led. It's also a sector that's come under acute pressure through COVID, through the cost of living…

I think it's really something really powerful about people that are on missions that kind of delight others and create truly incredible experiences and to reflect on where some of that inspiration came from.

So really excited to share her story with you.

I also want to say a big shout out this month to my neighbour, Phil.

The Northern Monk podcast is really built on community and sharing of people's stories and voices, but my community really showed up for me in getting this podcast produced because I forgot my condenser microphone, which is what we started on. And for those that listened to the first episode, you will also know that that probably wasn't the best microphone to start on.

But in this episode, thanks to Phil, who really stepped in and lent me his field recording mic.

As ever, I also want to say a big thanks to James Bisset, producer of the show, and of the intro and outro music.

Now, let's hear from Liz, Fresh From The North.

Liz Cottam, welcome to the Fresh From The North podcast.

I'm talking to some of the North's most high impact humans about a day well lived, a day in the life, the ultimate day, the perfect day for those people.

I want to start a little bit with your backstory, call it your origin story. And I feel like, you know, we know each other, we talk quite a lot, and I think those early years for you were quite important growing up in the pubs of Leeds.

Is that right? Can you tell us a bit about that?

Liz: Wow, yeah.

My mum and dad, well, my dad was a miner and my mum was a barmaid. And when my dad got his little redundancy from the pit, they sunk it into a pub and it was quite the pub. It was huge. You know, I used to ride my bike around inside.

It was one of these old estate pubs that had a big kind of function—, almost like a stage with changing rooms at the side of it, you know, just to give you the scale of it.

But it was a very, very, very, let's call it, spit and sawdust pub in Middleton, in Leeds. And yeah, so I grew up with lots and lots and lots of interesting characters around me on a daily basis.

My– this was like the very early 80s as well. So lock-ins between lunchtime and evening service were definitely a thing. You know, the curtains got closed. The local bobby used to pop in and have a little cheeky pint and there was lots of card games going, lots of money kind of changing hands, that kind of thing.

So it was a bit of an unusual upbringing for sure.

And then there was my mum who was glamorous, warm, and just such a character.

You know, she was definitely in the right job and she brought out the best in people.

And yeah, so I suppose in a way, that was just part of my DNA and that's where I've kind of got what I'm doing today.

Russell: Sounds like an incredible like, melting pot of experiences.

Can you remember any early sparks from those very early memories and what I guess was a hospitality environment - was it something that just captured your imagination?

Not really, no.

I think the thing that stands out is just the conversations, you know, even as a child.

There was always someone who wanted to have a conversation, someone who had a story, someone who just, just ultimately entertaining as well.

So, you know, from the oldest gent Albert, all the way down to, you know, some of the children that were in there as well.

And there was lots of different types of people, different— you know, in the in the lounge, there was always a couple used to sit by the bar and read The Times, for example, which, you know, looking back at that and knowing the context of where it was, that was probably quite unusual.

And then there was the rough and ready guys in the tap room who my dad kept in check and they were roofers and people who would quite openly talk about throwing, pushing people off roofs and things like that. I mean, genuinely kind of that thing went on too.

So, yeah, it was, it was really, really diverse.

Russell: And did you serve food? Crucially, I guess that's the question?

Liz: Yes, there were some plastic baskets going on with chicken inside of them and sausages and, you know, like very, very simple pub fare.

And then there was the Fish man. So every Saturday, something like that, there'd be this guy in a white coat with a basket. He used to come in with a white hat and he used to sell fish to people in the pub.

Russell: I assume fish to go and cook at home, right, it was—

Liz: No, no.

Russell: Oh really?

Liz: It was like cockles and…

Russell: Amazing!

Liz: It was these like weird, I just remember these really strange sort of yellow pieces of fish. And I don't think they were like smoked haddock. I think it was something else. Nothing that I've ever encountered since.

And people used to buy them and have a little fork and just kind of sit and eat them.

Russell: So we're going to jump around a bit here, and I guess, for me, going to reflect on the things that we've talked about, the things that I feel like are those kind of real instrumental, pivotal moments of your journey into what you do now, but a big one was obviously your corporate career, right?

Do you want to talk a little bit about the world in which you lived before you gave it all up to pursue your dream of food?

Liz: Yeah, so I didn't go to university and I ended up landing a job with– there was an advert in the Yorkshire Evening Post and it sounded kind of cool and I didn't know what it was about because it was talking about the internet.

And, you know, 20 odd years ago, no one even had email addresses. So it was something what was very, very new to everybody, not just me. And they were looking for an account exec to help them with with selling this concept, I think, to people who would normally buy branding and kind of marketing services, that kind of thing.

So I kind of answered this ad, not really knowing what it was going to lead to.

And basically that was a massive, introduction to the internet and the digital world, but I suppose the most important thing was I was working directly for the MD. And he was a young guy. He was like 32 or something but I think he was a good 10 years older than me so he seemed really old and yeah, we went out there and we were selling websites to people like Cooper's and Lybrand, Ferrari, Hush Puppy…

I mean, we were just walking into places talking about the internet and they were allowing us to go in there and have these conversations and they were like, yeah, this sounds amazing. Sign us up.

So we were just building websites for some of the biggest brands in the UK and international brands as well.

And the guy who I worked for was really inclusive and very supportive of me, even though I had no experience in that world. Because I worked with him, I got to kind of experience every part of that business from a really early age in a really young grassroots kind of industry as well.

So that gave me tons of grounding, not just into the whole mechanics of the sales and marketing side of it, but, you know, the finance set up, the, you know, HR stuff… It was just really me and him and a team of designers and yeah, it was a wonderful kind of introduction to the world of business.

Russell: When did food first come in? I guess that must have formed part of that world, like, you know, you're wining and dining Ferrari, that must have been part of the journey, were there some incredible kind of moments…

Liz: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think my love of food definitely came through being lucky enough to eat in some fantastic restaurants. And being around quite an extravagant MD who, you know, he was driving a Ferrari.

You know, so we went down to London and back in the day, you know, we'd go to places like Quaglino's and there was this place called Atlantic Bar And Grill, which was not kind of Michelin star— well, did Quags have a star back then? I can't even remember, I think they eventually got one.

But yeah, so it was a glamorous and interesting for you know, someone in their early 20s to be introduced to that world and have an excuse to go to those places. It was definitely, it was awe inspiring to me because it wasn't really about the food in the beginning. It was about how it made me feel. And, you know, you knew you were in an amazing place and there was just an energy and a sense of occasion. And I suppose it was just really special. And I think, I think that really seduced me. And then later I started to appreciate the food as I got older.

But yeah.

Russell: And when did you start? When did that turn into— like, was cooking at home and being a chef, was that something you were always passionate about from a young age, or was that inspired by a particular time? Were you cooking a lot at that time?

Liz: Yeah, so I couldn't even boil an egg or mash any potatoes until I was about 22, 23. I used to buy mashed potato from Mark's and Spencer’s, you know, like that's the level that we were at, right?

And then I met my husband and he was someone who, I think was brought up in a family that cooked for one another and his mum, Jill, who's an amazing cook. She used to entertain a lot. So she was entertaining a lot for us , you know, as a family. And we used to go out a lot as well.

And I think, you know, that whole sitting around a table and being with friends and family and feeding them, I just fell in love with that whole process. And I think really, Richard and his family were the ones that opened that door to me because my background was— my mum and dad had a pub. There was very little sitting around and having any kind of family time, let alone kind of this more traditional sort of family setup.

And yeah, I I love that togetherness feeling and started to want to replicate that with my friends and I wanted to cook for Richard as well. And that's basically where it all came from.

I bought a book— I can remember it today. It's a Ready, Steady Cook book.

Russell: I got that you know!

Liz: With Ainsley Harriet on the front of it.

Russell: The heyday of Ready Steady Cook, yeah?

Liz: Yeah, yeah and I bought that.

And I remember looking at the photographs and just being— you know, obviously I was going out to some great places and seeing some great food and if I was going to make anything, I wanted it to look good. Which is so funny thinking that, you know, no offence, Ainsley, with your recipes in there…

Russell: What kind of food were you trying to make look good then?

Liz: Well, there was this recipe called Hungry for Haddock. It had a name which I think came from the TV show. They always named them, I think, did they? And yeah, I started to make that dish and I kept making it over and over again.

And yeah, that was my first introduction to wanting to cook and then trying to perfect something, you know, because I, yeah, I cooked it all the time for a good few months.

Russell: And then another big, big leap was MasterChef, right?

How did you feel about that, going into it? Were you the type of person like, that feels comfortable— yeah, what was the thought process? How did you feel making that big leap of faith?

Liz: It's a very weird set of circumstances that led to me going on that because the year before, it was like midweek dinner, there was like three or four of my friends, lots of wine involved…

And by this point, I was cooking my little mini tasting menus for my friends. So five or six courses. Even if it was midweek, you know, I'd put a lot of effort and time and intention really in terms of what I wanted to cook for them.

And I think it was like about midnight or something. It was ridiculous. I got persuaded to put an application in for MasterChef. So we kind of cobbled it together, we put it in and then a few days later I got a phone call for a sort of telephone interview to go up to be interviewed to see whether or not, you know, they'd want me on the show.

So I went through that process and then they said, well, you'd need to come down and bring a dish. And I happened to be in London around the corner from where they were in a few days. So a few things lined up.

So I went, I put a little dish together in some Tupperware and took it down to London.

Russell: So you bring the dish in the Tupperware? Geez!

Liz: Yeah, because on MasterChef, all of the dishes are always tried cold anyway.

So, yeah, so I put it in my bag, added it to my briefcase, went down to London to Soho and met with them.

And then a couple of days later they called me back and said, yeah, we want you on the show.

But this happened in a really short space of time and when I looked at the schedule of what they needed from me and— I looked at it and I thought, there's no fucking way I'm going to be able to do that. There's just no way.

But also I didn't know why I was doing it. Do you know what I mean?

A few days earlier I'd been having a drink and cooking with some friends and like within a week—

Russell: Snowballed.

Liz: So I was just like, no, I'm not doing this. But I had told my mum that I was doing this thing and that they wanted me on the show. And, you know, mums of a certain generation, you know, they see television and, you know, that whole kind of media thing is really exciting…

Russell: This is your mum who is super glamorous.

Liz: Yeah..

Russell: Must have been super excited by the prospect.

Liz: And she was just, Oh My God, our Elizabeth on television. You know, she just got really excited. I mean, she was one of those people who was like always, always pushing me to do any kind of unusual thing all the time.

She sort of wanted to live— I think, her life because of the generational thing and she got married to her first husband very, very, very, very young because she had to, you know, and I think she very much wanted me to do all the things that she didn't do. So things like this were so up her street to try and push me towards. So she was super excited about it.

Anyway, long story short, I didn't do it.

Russell: So, career’s gone really well. You're making some bank, basically, Life, I guess in many ways from what people would perceive, is exciting, it's high flying. But how were you feeling at the time?

Liz: Yeah so things were, on paper, brilliant. You know, I had the house, the car, the handbag, the expense account, you know.

And I don't know, my mum used to always sort of worry about me. You know, she was always like, there's just something that you're not getting from what you're doing. You could just see that she wanted more for me. And I suppose I did too really deep down because, you know, coming up to being 40, I was like looking at my life and just feeling like something was missing.

And I decided that I'd take a bit of a leap in of faith at that point.

So before I got the job with the website company , I had spent a couple of years at art school and I just obviously completely turned my back on all of that when the career took off.

So I had a bit of a conversation with myself— I was on holiday in Markesh, actually. I had started taking photographs and really falling into the process of thinking artistically again. And I sort of connected with a part of myself at that moment. And I came back from that holiday and I think it was the final thing that I needed really to feel, to then allow me to make some big changes.

And that was really about being brave enough to sort of turn my back on all of the entrappings of the easy life. So I sort of business planned a six-month sabbatical, I suppose, from that to explore what was going to happen next.

And I’m a firm believer in committing to the future, or the thing that you want, and not trying it and having one foot on dry land and one foot in a boat. You know, because you're never going to— you can't half do it. Yeah, exactly.

So I left my job basically, and I was lucky enough to have just enough cash, I think, to stop my husband from having sleepless nights and to give me a decent enough time to do it.

Russell: It feels like, for me, there's been this appreciation and I guess, from those early childhood days of bringing people together, experiences… and then also this real kind of creative energy that simmered underneath. And then you've got this world of kind of business experience, some of which you've enjoyed, some of which not so much, but you're now at a point where you're about to write a business plan that I guess brings all of that together, right?

How did it feel writing the business plan?

Liz: Well, people used to pay me to write them. So so I was like, yeah, this is a comfy pair of shoes.

I felt really weird about doing it for myself. But I didn't have any fear about turning my back on the career because it just felt really right.

And I also, I suppose, knew having six months out of a career that I had spent 22 years putting together that I knew I could walk back into it relatively easily as well.

But yeah, so I was doing that at the time and I was photographing quite a lot. And working with some really brilliant photographers and, you know, just putting myself in that space, really.

And then mum got ill.

So we were talking about MasterChef a really long way around. But yeah, my mum got ill— like, you know, a stomach pain, so, you know, it wasn't kind of like a long suffering thing. All of a sudden she needed to be taken into hospital.

And I was going to go and see her the next day and she was— they were keeping her in for observation. And up popped Time Hop on Facebook, which was like, two years ago today you were drinking with your buddies, with photographs of me and my friends and I knew that was the night that I'd put this application into MasterChef.

And, I think, I didn't know why I was doing it the first time around but also work was getting in the way of that decision because of the schedule and what have you. And I looked at it and I was like, oh, hang on a minute.

I've got the time. Obviously, it's super creative. It would be really good fun. And also, I think, you know, with my mum being in the hospital, I was like, God, if I, if I did this, when I go to see her tomorrow, she's just going to be like crazy over the moon about this. This is really going to cheer her up. Yeah.

So I literally cut and pasted the application - I’ve got this - and sent it back in.

And, five o'clock in the morning, the phone’s ringing and mum's died. Suddenly. Just a complete, out of the blue, thing that happened.

And in the afternoon, there’s a London number calling me. I thought, oh, you know, it must be a relative or, you know— because obviously there was the sad news that was sort of circulating throughout the family and what have you.

And it was the producers from MasterChef again. And they were like, hey, we remember you. Blah, blah.

And I said, well well, look, you know, this thing's happened and they were like, oh, well, we're really close to the end of submissions. Could we give you seven days? Will you get back in touch?

And I was like, yeah, I'll think about it. I'll get back to you.

But you can imagine the chain of events around that. It felt like I had to do it. You know?

And I know you can post-rationalise these things but, in the moment, I didn't think there was any other thing that I should be doing more than going on this bloody TV programme. Which obviously sounds a bit ridiculous. But it felt really important.

Russell: It doesn't sound ridiculous, it sounds… yeah, it's powerful.

Liz: Yeah.

So how did I feel going into MasterChef? Well, I felt like I was on some sort of mission, you know? I was like, Oh my God, I've got to do this for mum.

And I was wearing her necklace throughout, which really got on the sound guy's nerves because it was banging against the microphone and stuff.

But yeah, so I put so much pressure on myself, way too much pressure.

I didn't go into it, I think, with the right mindset and consequently, I kind of choked and, you know, that whole, you know— I’m thinking tennis, there’s the thing about the chimp. You know, your inner chimp? And, you know, there's the pro Wimbledon final and, you know, in the men's final and double faulting the whole time, you know, he must do millions of practises and nails it every single time. But you know, when you put the pressure on yourself and there's this kind of panic and there's fear inside of you, you don't perform.

And obviously I was just an amateur cook, you know, but yeah, so, I didn't enjoy the process. I didn't allow myself to enjoy it. And it was quite painful coming out of it thinking that I'd messed it all up as well.

But none of it matters, but at the time, you know, because of that pressure I put on myself, I didn't really enjoy the process, to say the least.

Russell: What was after that? What came next? You were on a mission. You felt really compelled. Obviously, maybe that was almost too much energy - that it was kind of over boiling and putting too much pressure on yourself, but, yeah, where were you at that point?

Liz: I think the one standout thing that I learned and is the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing today…

So there’s kind of two big differences to challenges within MasterChef. There's the studio and then there's the real kitchens. And if you get far enough along in the competition, you end up in real kitchens. And in the studio, you know, there's these complicated recipes that even as an amateur chef, I was attempting to do in a teeny weeny studio kitchen with an hour and 15 minutes.

So, you know, I shouldn't have really attempted to do that. So I was putting lots of pressure on myself in so many different ways and I'm a control freak as well. So there's lots of jeopardy, you know, that they instil to get, you know, the viewing kind of intention, yeah, from the way it all comes across.

But then I managed to go into— so I was actually quite out of my depth and felt quite stressed. And then we went and worked in professional kitchens and Greg Wallace came over to me on the first day and just went ‘well this is weird’. No one ever is more relaxed in the professional kitchen, you know, like this is unusual. And I was just happy as a pig in mud.

We were— they put me on the the steak section, which is notoriously, you know, the hardest one because you're cooking to order, it's not the same thing over and over again and you know, there's expensive pieces of meat involved and things like that .

But once I asked all the questions about what we were all doing, how we were doing it, that sort of team environment, it just felt completely natural to me.

And, you know, by the end of the day, I just felt, I don't know, I just felt really, really comfortable in that environment .

And I think looking back at that, I think one of the reasons I do what I do and I enjoy it so much is that I'm a pack animal, you know, so I just love that coordination with a number of people and the energy that those people bring to achieving something together.

And obviously the kitchen environment, you're doing that multiple, multiple times a day. And I think, I think from a cultural point of view, it just really, really suits me. And maybe that comes from , you know, seeing my mum and dad working with their teams and with that connectivity, with the community, exactly that, yeah.

Russell: So— but you say you put all that pressure on yourself, you still smashed it, right?

Liz: You know, I think I can say this. You know, I definitely feel like I was capable of winning it, you know, and I'm, yeah, that sounds like I'm being really arrogant, but it's just now knowing what I know as well, I’m just like, yeah, I should have won it.

So I felt really, really kind of disappointed that I fucked it up.

Russell: But do you think that gave rise— that again, those melting pots of circumstances— like you had the ability in more ways than one in terms of business, creativity, flair, and you had like this drive to do it for so many reasons, including your mum, which, like I say, is so powerful, but you also had a point to prove then.

So you started Home.

Liz: Yeah.

Russell: I'd love to talk a bit about Emba too, so I don't know if you want to give us, like, a little couple of minutes on Home, Owl, and, yeah, really excited to hear about Emba.

Liz: Yeah, so I came out of MasterChef. And I knew that I loved that real life kitchen environment.

So I set to work in terms of getting some experience to sort of sanity check whether or not I was cut out for it and whether or not I could do it and I was any good at it.

So I did a number of things. I did a few pop-ups which I absolutely hated because I think I was on my own. I negotiated a residency at a hotel in Leeds. So I started working for five nights a week, creating an extended pop-up if you like, with a cobbled together team who were absolutely amazing and I don't know how we did what we did because it was a pretty much an overnight success.

In amongst all of that, I did what we call in the industry Stages, which is kind of a few weeks here and there, trying to work in professional kitchens. So I did that.

And one of them was for The Box Tree at Ilkley that had a star at the time. And off the back of that with the people that I met and the experience that I got, I decided that I was going to go to the bank with another business plan, raise some cash and start Home, which we opened in 2017.

Russell: It was so exciting for the city. I still remember it. Particularly around that time, the city was just, and when I say the city I mean Leeds right, and it just felt like a hive of kind of, particularly in hospitality, dynamism but that was a leading light, right? That was so exciting.

But yeah, what was it like to open the doors of your first restaurant?

Liz: It was a massive, a massive, massive adrenaline kind of high. I mean, when you really break it down, never opening a restaurant to— I mean, I renovated— the place was an absolute derelict building, you know.

Russell: Was it like, an Indian restaurant before?

Liz: Yeah, it had been an Indian restaurant and then just sat there for a few, quite a few years and my goodness, it was in a bad state. I mean, you know, really bad state.

Russell: But you walked up those stairs and then there was like the big light wells, wasn't there? I mean, it's quite a few years ago now, but yeah, it was a really nice experience, yeah.

Liz: I like— what I liked about it is that you walked up these weird sort of old sort of, I don't know, dark stairs and then you got up there and there was these huge ceilings, this fantastic light… It had once been a dance hall and the floor was this really springy maple floor.

And, you know, there was all these beautiful— behind the walls, the partition walls, there was all these tiles. It also used to be a fish market because it was on— it actually backs onto Fish Street. So where Fish Street got its name was because that was a fish market. So there's these tiles and all these frescos of lakes and seas and, you know, kind of because it was where you went and bought fish from. And obviously just opposite Kirkgate Market, it was just, yeah, it was a really special place.

And it was really cheap!

I remember having a look at beautiful space in the Victoria Quarter and it was like four times the amount.

And we were literally— we did it and it was like maybe 120 second walk, you know, like it was so, so close. So yeah, it was a bit of a no brainer, opened that.

And I think what was happening in Leeds at the time for me was that we had loads of really nice relaxed places to eat and we had one amazing place to eat, which was The Man Behind The Curtain. And other than that, you know, there was a gap, I think, in the market there. And that was just the type of food that I wanted to serve because it was the type of food I wanted to eat then.

So yeah, it kind of exploded onto the scene, to be honest with you. I mean, in the first two weeks, we got reviewed by The Times and The Independent.

They didn't come out because then they, you know, then they send a photographer and you don't know what the review is and Marina's review came out first, which was The Times.

And I can't begin to tell you the amount of effort that me and the team had put into opening the restaurant as well.

Everybody was young, I mean, really young. I'd hired a load of chefs. I'd interviewed chefs and I just didn't like any of them. I was like, okay, you can cook and you've got a decent CV, but I really don't want to work with you.

So I ended up taking on all of these college kids who were like 17-18. I mean, wildly stupid move in one respect, but I was sort of, of the opinion that I could give people experience, but I couldn't give them the right attitude.

So, you know, front of house, in the kitchen, just really, really young people.

And when we were opening Home, we literally painted the walls together, you know. And I think for at least 10 days on the run up to opening, we were working till two, three o'clock in the morning, the whole team, but every single person was doing it with a beautiful heart and a smile on their face. And then when the first people came through the door and if anyone kind of scuffed a wall, they were like, ‘Oi! I painted that wall, you know, watch out!’

So there was a sense of ownership and togetherness and that was a fantastic thing. So when we opened it, we had such a collective pride for what we were doing and a hope for it to be great.

And then we got these big broadsheet reviews and one of them was fantastic and one of them was pretty bad.

Russell: And what was that like? You must have been, well yeah, go on and talk me through it, what was the emotion like?

Liz: So we knew that The Times one was coming out. It was a Sunday Times review. So at midnight, on the Saturday night, we were like refreshing the page, refreshing the page, refreshing the page and it came out and it was— it said a little star in the North, you know, and it was— I'm getting tingly, just thinking about it.

I can honestly say, you know, bless my little heart, you know, in— you know, it's nearly 10 years ago, nine years ago, eight or nine years ago now? But I feel like I've grown up in the industry so much, but I really love the fact that it meant so much to me at the time and we all sat around waiting for it…

And I'm not an overly emotional person as a general rule. But I just was so proud that I just burst into tears with pride and I don't think anything's ever made me feel like that before or after, you know.

Russell: Must have been a culmination of like, all of the things that we've discussed though, and I can— yeah, it must have been incredible.

And well deserved as well, right?

Liz: Well, you know, yeah, we were, we were doing pretty well.

And, you know, I had done a bit of a statement of intent where I wasn't going to undersell the amount that we were charging for what we were doing because we were using all the great ingredients that, you know, people who are Michelin star restaurants were using and, you know, I didn't want to kind of sneak up. I wanted to make a big impact.

So I never thought we could, but I was definitely going to try. So like when we got this review, it was like validation and it was just, it was just amazing!

I mean, what happened a couple of weeks later was The Independent review.

And so Rick Samada, who was the reviewer at the time… He was a tech reviewer who was trying to get the food critic gig and him and Grace Dent and a few other people were kind of doing guest reviews and then they were going to choose the one that they were going with.

And he knew when he was writing his review that the Times had loved it and I believe in an attempt to catch the eye of the editor, but also to have an opposing view, I think he got a bit creative, shall we say? He came up with, like— literally there's only me in the world who could open a restaurant and have a reviewer who created a title for a review saying— it was something like, and I'm not even making this up, ‘Is It Spunk?’

Russell: Wow. And what was that a reference to?

Liz: So I had a rabbit dish with a smoked parsnip purée. And he had brought a woman, someone who he was, you know, trying to impress, up from London for the night out. She was like a little waspy kind of socialite type person. And when the food came, that's what she said.

So he'd kind of like mentioned this and then they'd done like a pull quote from this and it was kind of connected to the title. Yeah.

Russell: All feels really clickbait-ey, doesn't it?

Liz: Oh God, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you know, like it was at the time where I was actually still on Twitter. And this is like, you know, early doors where it is my first rodeo, you know, so everything feels really personal, you know, a Trip Advisor review could send me into a spin for a week. You know, like it was just so kind of raw and I was overly sensitive, so can you imagine ?

You know, it was just huge. It was really, really bad. And I remember at the time, sort of, wanting to murder him? I wanted to hunt him down and kill him.

But on Twitter, I kind of said something, well, Rick Samada has a very creative approach to review writing. And the editor, Bob, he kind of said, wow, what a refreshing approach to a less than positive review. Yeah, because I was quite humorous about it. But I actually wanted to kill him and blow up The Independent as well. I was like, I hate you all.

Russell: But it is really hard in those early years, isn't it when you're so full of dreams and energy and just intent, purpose, mission - those things can really sideswipe you, can't they?

I think over the years you become more and more desensitised.

So at the moment, I'm going through something in the beer industry called Untappd. And it's basically like a review platform where people will review the beer, like a Trip Advisor but it gets like— we've got 2.7 million reviews, so it's got really high frequency of use. But I'm just going through every day and going through every single one and after a while you do like— there was certainly a time when I would be just really taken aback, wrongfooted by things like that, really upset.

But these days, like you just take it in your stride.

Do you feel like, how has that journey felt for you going— having those reviews over the years and yeah, how does that feel like these days?

Liz: It's a really interesting one because I I took myself off Twitter during the pandemic because I think personally, my opinion on it is that it's a toxic environment for people to be encouraged to share toxic views. I don't enjoy it in the slightest. And I sort of have benefitted so much from taking myself out of that situation.

So if a tree falls down in a forest, does it make a sound if no one’s around to hear it, right? So, I tend to not really pay attention to any of that stuff. But it took me about two years of Jedi mind practice, you know, to disassociate my daily routine with caring about that kind of thing. And, you know, it was really, really tough.

But the whole topic of critics are obviously sort of part and parcel of what I do. What is really interesting, I think, is, you know, as human beings, we all want to read the bad review.

So I think reviews in general in big, powerful publications, they're almost incentivised to be controversial, you know, and I've seen it time and time again. And also I've come a cropper a couple of times. That's one of those instances.

So, so yeah, I wish people weren't turned on by reading something bad about anyone, but we’re human and we are. And I think, you know, it’s something that I have to live with.

But I've made a decision now that if I ever if I ever see a critic wanting to come into the restaurant, I'm just going to ask them to leave. I'm just not playing the game, you know. I mean, they do kind of sneak in, don't get me wrong.

But, you know, if Jay Rayner walked in, for example, I'd be like, because— you know, I'd be like, mate, I'm really sorry, but I'm just not, I'm not doing this. And I'm confident that he would probably really like it.

It's just, I just feel like I need to make a stand on that because if you're going to take the praise for something, you need to take the blame. And I think, you know, if I just want the good reviews but they're just so unpredictable and in my experience, they've been very strategic, I think. It's not just Rick’s.

I mean, Rick and I are actually friends now, so I turned that one around. But, yeah, it’s a bit of a sad thing that these things are part and parcel of what we do, but they just are.

Russell: I respect all that completely.

And it was interesting to hear those references to social media; but I did make a mental note also of, whilst largely— really challenging thing social media in terms of mental health and the role it plays in society, but a Facebook memory actually played a really important role for you, so maybe that's a little positive there.

So, inevitably, you got such an incredible and fascinating backstory that we spent a long time unpacking it.

I do want to talk a bit about The Owl, because again, it was such an incredible vision, and I was lucky to be having conversations with you around that time and I found it really inspiring— around, but, well, I'm not going to say it. It would be great to hear it from you: Vision for The Owl and then where we’re at today, and then let's talk about what a perfect day looks like.

Liz: Yeah, we'll get round to that two and a half hours later!

So, like I mentioned, we were at Home, we were literally opposite Leeds Kirkgate Market.

When I was a kid and from those early stages when mum and dad had the very first pub and then beyond, I used to get dragged around on my tiptoes around Leeds Kirkgate Market because mum was buying stuff to make at the pub.

But we also kind of, as a family, we bought most of our stuff from there, you know, whether it was clothes or, you know, bits of carpet, you know, like everything happened.

So being opposite Leeds Kirkgate Market, it was always like, it was taunting me because I used to have so many positive, fantastic memories of it being vibrant and full of life.

And obviously being a chef, and this is my market opposite, you'd hope that you'd be able to buy some great things from there and it would be just part of the wonderful urban fabric of the city, really, being able able to have a restaurant opposite a market.

Didn't quite deliver in terms of the quality. It didn't quite— we just couldn't really buy what we wanted from them.

And that's because it's turned into more of a… it's kind of like a value option, I think.

And I think over the years, I think when the supermarkets turned up, they, you know, the really big chain supermarkets of the 90s, I think that's when it properly kind of grabbed a hold of us as a nation. It just couldn't compete, you know, in the same way.

So walking past it, walking through it every day, it was quite sad to not be able to go and buy fantastic mushrooms and great meat. I mean, the fish actually was quite good from there, to be honest.

But yeah, so I was in London at an event, at Top 100 Awards and I had some time on my hands so went to Borough Market and I'm wandering around and I'm getting more and more angry. And I'm like, why the hell isn't our Kirkgate Market being used for such an amazing… way, you know? I mean, yeah.

So I was really frustrated and I was like, well, hang on a minute, why aren't I doing anything?

Russell: No, I remember at the time, you were talking about, you know, being able to go to a market in Barcelona and be able to have fresh oysters and champagne in amongst the market and the hustle and the bustle and how powerful an experience that is, was and could be and wanting to replicate some similar, which I guess is the kind of thing you're alluding to at Borough Market, right?

Liz: Yeah, yeah, just tons of food and drink and just loads of life just constantly there. And also enjoying a beautiful building. I mean, Borough Market is nowhere near as beautiful as Kirkgate Market. You know, the architecture is stunning, you know. I've said on a number of occasions if it was in Venice, you'd have to pay to get in to have a look around, you know.

So yeah, so I decided I was going to put my money where my mouth was and try and do something.

So I came up with three different concepts. The first of which was going to be The Owl. Spoke to the council and persuaded them to let me turn a number of their stalls into a gastro pub and then we had a chat because I really wanted it, I wanted it to be unusual, you know, because I wanted to put some high quality elements into the market stall, you know, as a restaurant and attract a discerning clientelle. But I also wanted it to be authentic, to its roots, its location, its sense of place.

So I kind of wanted to balance it all out and I think beer and being able to drop into a place and not have to eat was essential for The Owl, really, for it to be in— that location, for it to make sense, it needed that.

But I also didn't want to just put any old beer in there and, you know, what you were doing over at Northern Monk, the creativity, the— just the way you do everything, it just felt like a super, super great synergy.

Russell: Thank you. It was great to be part of it. As I say, it was another opening that was just really exciting for the city and I think for the North, I don't think there’s anything really like that. And it is that, like— the hustle and bustle, the diversity of the audience that's in there. It was great.

And so The Owl moved to a new home but continued to offer quite a similar menu. And it’s at that location, you're about to take the the first steps on a new adventure?

Liz: Yeah, I think— so, you know, a couple of things happened. A pandemic, which changed everything in so many different ways. I mean, Christ, yeah, I don't think there’s a person alive who can't relate to that, let alone a business owner. But yeah, so that just changed everything in terms of what we did and how we did it for a really long time.

And then the access to the space, you know, it was very difficult being there. And we and the council talked about it long and hard about it, trying to come up with a solution to allow us to continue there and it just wasn't economically viable for them. Or for us, really. So we had to move.

So we moved down to Mustard Wharf and— it couldn't be lifted, you know, the genes and chromosomes and the atmosphere and it was just way too particular for that to work anywhere else. So I didn't attempt to do that. And because of the pandemic, we had to sort of change what we did and how we did it.

So we involved and focussed more on the food and the restaurant side of things down there.

And now that I’m— so in amongst all of this, we moved Home from location one to location number two and yeah, we were going great guns down there. But a number of things happened down there as well, the economy, the war, energy prices, produce prices, all those things happen.

Russell: There's been a few things happening over the past years, hasn't there?

Liz: Just a few. Just a few.

So I had to close Home last year in September, you know. Myself… we've mentioned The Man Behind The Curtain, Michael had to close his place down. We ended up closing on the very same day, which wasn't a suicide pact. It was just literally a kind of like endorsement of the trading conditions and where we were both at, at the same time.

So, and it wasn't just us by the way, but, you know, operating tasting menus at that kind of price point, you know, we both went down on the same day. I don't think that's an accident.

And I've had to sort of take a really long, hard look at where I'm at, what next? I had to ask myself if I wanted to carry on.

I did take a look to see whether or not there was something back in the corporate world that would catch my eye. And I did dip my toe in the water with that.

Turns out I absolutely would rather stick pins in my eyes than do that. And you know, and the reason why I left it in the first place, that kind of need to satisfy something more than a bank account is still there.

And I think it's really important. Well, for me as an individual, but for everybody out there to listen to what, what you want deep inside, you know, what your soul needs. But I think with what happened, I'd have been mad not to at least check what was happening back in the corporate world. Anyway, decided that it wasn't something I was ready to go back to or wanted to go back to.

So then I had to find a way of being motivated to do whatever I'm going to do next.

So when I opened The Owl, I just remembered that warm feeling that I felt when I was there. And it was different to Home. I've always loved Home and I— God, I really, you know, they're still my family, the people who I created Home with. I loved being there.

But when I visited The Owl and walked through those doors, there was a different feeling to it. And I think when I boiled it down, it's because it really connects with me as a person on a level, in a way that Home never did. And that sense of community, I think, feeding people in a more simple way, not excluding anyone from that experience. It's what I grew up doing with my mum and dad and the regulars. You know, it's all of that kind of connectivity. So I wanted to make sure that my future included as much of that as possible.

And that's how I came up with the idea of Emba and what I'm going to do down there.

Russell: I don't know if you want to unpack Emba and the vision for that?

Yeah. When I opened Home, it was the food I wanted to eat and also I wanted to cook. But right now, where I am in my life, the type of food that I want to cook and I want to eat has really evolved and changed. To be honest with you, I don't get much chance to feed friends anymore.

And you know, that whole reason why I fell in love with food was cooking around a table like this with as many friends as possible and having the conversations and the connected physicality of being with people and home was more of a theatrical stage and a bit more removed.

So what I'm trying to do with Emba, I suppose, is bring me and what I love closer and I want to bring people closer to that experience of what I'm doing as well.

So I love cooking primarily over fire when I'm at home. If it's too cold, I've got an Aga, which is quite a organic way of cooking, it's certainly not precision cooking. It's very instinctive. And I think that is where I get my joy.

So Emba, it's not quite literal, E-M-B-E-R, but Emba is really about a nod to that style of cooking and what that means to me as a chef.

Russell: Incredible. And when can we expect you to open the doors of Emba?

Liz: So, with the help of some amazing people out there, we've reached our crowdfunder target yesterday.

Russell: Oh, did you? Because when I last checked, you were just about to creep over, so that's really exciting!

Liz: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. It's unbelievable!

We hoped for it and we thought the odd one person would, but, you know, it's just, it's just been incredible. But with the help of the money that we've got from that, we're going to be opening on the first of May next Thursday.

Russell: Whoa! Incredible. Well, congratulations.

That's a testament to the reputation that you've built, the community that you've built, and all the things that kind of led up to the vision and what became of the vision, right, and what you've done?

Liz: Yeah, it is, it's quite humbling, really. I'm really hopeful that the way that we're building Emba will mean that these people will be a big part of this new thing, you know? And I think that for me is really important, you know,

I really want to connect with people, you know, because that's what I'm really drawn to is the conversations, the people, the feeling of togetherness, really.

Russell: Yeah, it feels like it's been a really strong thread again throughout— from, you know, those early childhood years within the pub and the community there. There’s like those inspirational moments of feeding communities, essentially small ones, but communities of friends and family around a table and it's culminated in this.

Right. One hour into the 15 minute pre— origin story, but it's a great origin story, so it was worth unpacking.

A perfect day, a day well lived in the life of Liz Cottam.

Like, what are we doing? We're getting up. I assume you’re getting up— you might have a lie-in, you know. What's it look like? You having a lie-in?

Liz: No, I very rarely have a lie-in. I don't need a lot of sleep, although at the moment with everything that's going on at Emba, I think if there was ever a time I needed it, it was now.

But ordinarily, I get up early, I go to bed late. And I get up and the first thing I do is I walk the dog.

I'm really lucky to live in one of the most beautiful parts of the world right by a river and we take a walk down the river every day.

Russell: So for the context, for those listening, we live in quite a similar part of the world. And I have walked my dog— used to live even closer to where Liz lives, but you can take in— within probably even just a 30 minute walk, you can take in a small forest, river, canal you get it all, don't you, it’s great!

Liz: Yeah, yeah you've got the glens, the moors, you know, on your doorstep and yeah, it's beautiful.

And so I start my day every day taking that in which, having lived in different places that don't give you that, I can tell you how much it kind of humbles me to sort of take that in and how grateful I am to be able to do that. It's a big part of my day.

Russell: It's so energising, isn't it?

Having a dog is the greatest excuse just to get out and have a walk, really.

And I think, so there's lots of research about mental health and being outside and feeling the gravitas of the world around you and your place in it, I think that's quite a powerful thing, you know, from a mental health point of view.

And then also, you’re kind of socialising with your dog and you’re socialising with other people and other dogs. And there’s that kind of element to it as well, you know. You sort of see the same sort of people at the same times in the same places and, you know, there's something something really vital about that as well.

Russell: Grounding, yeah. Always talking about the weather. Like we're obsessed with weather in this country. You don't even have to give any context. You just, you know, you walk past someone that you walk past a lot on the dog walk and you say, ‘We’ll take this’, and they'll know straight away. You mean the weather, right? Yeah, brilliant.

Liz: And also it just connects you to the seasons, doesn't it? Because, I mean, I love the changes in all the seasons. I'm a bit weird. I really love winter. I like dark mornings and dark evenings and—

Russell: Fire.

Liz: Fire, yeah. Me and my fires.

But yeah, you know, like knowing what's happening in that kind of lunar kind of way, you know, that the season's arriving and, you know, it's paying attention to that and enjoying the changes. That's really important to me.

Russell: Amazing.

So we've walked the dog, beautiful surroundings, taken in the seasons, connecting with your community of fellow dog walkers. Come back for breakfast?

Liz: No, I'm a faster, so I don't eat usually till like maybe one every day.

But I am a giant coffee lover. So as soon as I get back, it's always coffee time.

Russell: Any particular roast? What are you going for?

Liz: It's usually very, very, very strong. But also, I really like a soft edge to it. So, you know, anything with an undertone of chocolate, hazelnut, biscuit, you know, I tend to lean towards that. I don't take any milk. I like it strong, black and bitter.

But yeah, and if I can, even if it's cold, I'll wrap up and I'll go and sit outside. That's like part of my ritual.

Russell: And so into the morning and through the rest of the day, what are we doing, are you having— yeah, what's next?

Liz: I mean, if it's the perfect day, there'll be a soundtrack playing. My favourite day of the week is Sunday. So there's certain music that you want to listen to on a Sunday. So that'll be playing in the background and then I'll be planning what I'm going to cook that day. Maybe some friends are coming round.

Russell: This day sounds great. I think Sunday mornings is like just prime time for music. There's something beautiful about music on a Sunday morning. Do you know, have you got an idea what would it be?

What's the perfect Sunday morning soundtrack?

Liz: Yeah, I've got multiple playlists, which are titled Sunday.

But it's really eclectic. There's all sorts of things on there. I've got like, Richard Hawley on my favourite playlist, Jeff Buckley, Talk Talk… Love Talk Talk. But then there’s also people like Neil Young, Jill Scott, Janice Joplin…

Russell: It's a good Sunday morning.

Liz: Yeah, I think, you know it's all got to be a certain vibe, but it's so important just to have so much variety.

I'll tell you what else I do music wise on a Sunday, I always listen to Guy Garvey on Radio 6. And if I miss it, I'll listen to it on another day, you know, like I love it so much.

Russell: Sounds like the perfect day is a Sunday, which I rate, I like that. And you're probably, in the back of your mind, you're thinking about what you're going to — maybe the forefront of your mind, what's going to be for lunch.

It sounds like, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but we were kind of sounding like we might be inviting people over for Sunday lunch.

What's on the menu?

Liz: Always a roast. If it's summer, there'll be some beef or chicken or lamb kind of roasted on a barbecue, you know, like that's always going to feature.

But what I tend to do if people are coming around, I try and cook things that I just know they're going to love. So, you know, nothing crazy. Panful of Dauphinoise potatoes, nice big gravy, some nice veggies and things like that.

Yeah, I mean, that's just, that's just heaven, isn't it? A Sunday with a joint of beef and a nice dessert and some, I think we have some fit red wine as well.

Russell: That sounds superb.

And then going into the evening, are you going to— I guess, so in the perfect day, you want to be realistic, you don't want to be too full, but is that the big meal of the day or are you thinking you might, you know, jet set to somewhere for dessert and a cocktail? Or would you round out your evening, what would you do, another bottle of red wine? What are you thinking?

Liz: Yeah, yeah. If I've if I had beef and roast, there's no chance I'm leaving the house. So yeah, the fires will be on. And if we're outside because it's summer, there'll be the fire outside and yeah, I think the red wine aspect is really important on a Sunday.

You know, it just relaxes you, doesn't it? It's kind of an ingredient that is needed.

Russell: So it sounds like you'd stay around the table really, drinking a bit of red wine.

Liz: Chatting. Yeah.

Russell: Favourite red wine, red wine region?

Liz: Oh, that's like asking me what my favourite dish is. Yeah, like there's just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of great wines that I love.

I think on that particular Sunday, if I’ve cooked a joint and then I'm having a big red, I'd probably play it quite safe and do like a Cab Sav, but probably like a Californian one?

So, you know, like a a really nice bold, but creative, you know? Like the things about the Californian makers is that they don't have the same rules as the French. The French are very, quite rightly you know, protective over their winemaking and the process around it to retain the authenticity of what they do.

The Americans are a bit more maverick. So you get really interesting expressions of French grapes and things like that, which are really exciting. because it's nice to get a glass of wine and… So there was this— this is like the best way that someone described a good wine to me.

He's a winemaker, actually a biodynamic producer in South Africa and he's a really, really big character and really early on with Home he was showcasing some of his wines and I was like, oh my God, this wine and I was saying, ‘it's got— it starts off here it goes there then it goes over here and then it ends up over here’, and he said and he's, I can't do a South African accent but you know, he was like, ‘good wine is like a melody’, you know, it's not one note and you hear, taste a little chain of connecting notes.

So yeah, I think whatever wine I'd have, it would be something where you have a drink of it and it stops you and you sort of pay attention to it.

Russell: I feel like it would be remiss not to take this opportunity to like unpack… So it sounds like food wise it's all focussed on a bit of a feast Sunday lunch. If you were to give like one kind of headline basic recipe for one element of that, what would you go for and what would the recipe be?
Putting you on the spot there.

Liz: Yeah. One recipe?

Russell: I mean, Dauphinoise potatoes would be rad, or Yorkshires, obviously.

Liz: Yeah. I mean, right, so like the best Dauph. in the world, it's so easy. It's so, so easy.

Do you want quantities?

So enough sliced potatoes to fill a nice square lasagne dish, which is probably about 800 grams, something like that.

A nice large pot of cream, you know, a 600ml. You're not going to use it all, but you're going to use most of it.

Three garlic cloves and some fresh nutmeg and some Maldon.

And you're just going to put the garlic and the salt and the nutmeg into a bowl and mix it up and then you're going to slice the potatoes and put that into it with your hands coat it all. And then you push it all into the dish, extra cream, loads of nutmeg on the top and then cook it low and long at about 160 degrees and you just keep pushing it down because what happens the potato sort of come to the top and you need to keep pushing them down.

So if you do that every 20 minutes for about an hour and 45 and then let all the nutmeg almost burn on top and then it's just so, so delicious.

The amount of people who've tasted it and they go, oh, you know, is it— have you got cheese on top?

Like, because it's so rich. And like, no, absolutely not. We don't do that to Dauphinoise potatoes.

But yeah, so I think that's a typical Sunday treat, isn't it?

Russell: It is absolutely.

What kind of potato? What's the best potato for a Dauphinoise?

Liz: Best potato would be something like a Désirée, something… You want something flowery, you know, something kind of, you don't want it waxy because you want it to soak up all the flavour of the garlic and the cream.

Russell: Okay.

That was awesome. Really enjoyed that. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell us a little bit more about your story and what a perfect day would look like.

From humble beginnings with no formal training to one of the North's most original voices in food, Liz Cottam’s story is proof that it's never too late to back yourself.

She's launched fresh dining concepts rooted in instinct, creativity, and graft right here in the North.

Thank you for listening to The Fresh from the North podcast.

We'll see you next time.